Feats, Feats, Feats
Posted: June 26, 2009 Filed under: D&D, D&D 4e, Homebrew, Houserules, RPG 12 Comments »This post is just me thinking out loud about feats. Part of it is that I’m impatient with the acquisition of feats, and that there’s so many of them that I like, that I wonder if there’s ways to rethink their acquisition and the number you get.
So much stuff in 4e is done by feats that it’s sometimes almost agonizing to look at the possible choices. Especially at 1st level, christ, what do I CHOOSE at 1st level? There’s so much stuff to take, so much cool, amazing stuff, that it’s almost really painful how many feats you get in 4e, because it really almost doesn’t make a fraction of the cool stuff you can do, and because there are feats around that, because of a lack of slots, just isn’t going to be on your character ever.
The question I pose, which I can’t really answer, is if having more feats to choose from in 4e is bad thing that ruins the Delicate And Untouchable Balance™. Obviously, having 30 feats at 30th level would probably be a bit overkill. But what about 21?
4e gives you about 18 feats or so if I remember correctly (I may not, but this sounds like a good number anyway), so basically half the maximum level plus a bit more. They’re spread out at a fairly even clip. However, one of the things I noticed is that there are less epic level feats than there are paragon tier or heroic tier feats. A lot of new choices for feats in the books begin to open at heroic tier and then progress from there, which makes them quite valuable. And a lot of new feat choices that are just plain nice are in heroic tier for accessibility. If Familiars were epic tier, for example, there’d have been riots.
One thing I was thinking about is to give one feat per level at 1-21, then allow older feats to be retrained at epic tier if the player wants some more epic tier feats. This gives you 21 feats, which is only a little bit above what 4e normally gives, but it keeps you acquiring them at a pretty radical pace. You’ll even get 1 free epic feat at 21, after which the retraining thing comes. I’ve honestly rarely ever seen retraining done to feats because I see them being very meticulously and pain-stakingly planned. Only if a new book comes out do I see mass retraining. Anecdotal, obviously.
This doesn’t sound so bad to me, but we all know what I think about the notion of a Crystal Clear Untouchable Balance That Was Made To Be Shattered By A Gentle Autumn Breeze™.
The other idea is to just give out bonus feats to make up the difference. To stay within the above, there would have to 1 more bonus feat at each tier to get that “general homebrew maximum that isn’t a maximum” of 21 feats. So that would mean picking 1 level at heroic, 1 at paragon and 1 at epic to grant the feat at. I would recommend Level 3/13/23. Just because having another feat at the start would help the notion (just a little bit) that not a whole lot goes on at levels 1-4. This is less radical than the previous one, but I don’t like it as much. It still means you gain feats slowly even if you are gaining more.
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I approve. Because..well….delicious feats
I think there should be an option for non-combat feats to be acquired as bonus feats, to give incentive to people.
Think of it like this. In 3.5, whenever you obtained a Castle worth 100,000 gold, you would think it’s great – if it comes separate from normal wealth. But if it comes instead of normal wealth, you want it to burn down for inn-sewer-ants (yes I’ve been reading Discworld lately) gold as a castle does not help you kill people and take their belongings.
Thank for posting the idea, and yes, that’s something really good I didn’t consider. Each DM could craft a list of bonus feats, and grant them at certain levels. I would grant it whenever a Daily Power is granted, since none of the Daily Powers come in even-numbered levels where you get other feats (except at 1st level).
I object. I played four campaigns since I first laid my hands on 4e books and mostly I had headaches from complaints about poor number of feats available.
Like you said, there are less feats available as you advance in levels. Also, some feats are really poor choices for some. Maybe it’s about me and my players, but we don’t take feats just because there are some.
For example; the fighter from my last game didn’t take the feat that let him deal wisdom modifier damage when he missed. His argument was “I don’t miss too often.” and he couldn’t find a more suitable feat for that level (level 14). He has already took almost all of the rational choices he can. He searched for a better one and couldn’t find. That was frustrating as well as time consuming.
We need more feats for old classes. Dragon mag includes only the newest materials’ enchancements.
By the way, 21 feat idea is cool. I would gladly playtest it later this summer.
That’s really more about your player’s mindset. Were I that Fighter I’d have taken the feat, on the off-chance that I did miss, if there was really nothing better available. That’s my mindset as a player. I take lots of things that like that, because in a game with a d20 nothing is ever very certain. Especially 4e which tends to assume you’ll roll better than 10 if you want to win.
As for stuff for old classes: this blog only focuses on the first 8 classes in the PHB (from Cleric to Wizard in PHB1) so if you want material for old classes, you should check around here.
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My contribution is essentially the same; at high level it’s sometimes tough to fill out all the feats you do have. I’d end up taking things that were nice, really, but I’d already have picked out the ‘gotta have’ feats like Weapon Focus and that other one that gives +X to hit per tier. I’d always take an exotic weapon proficiency, because I had feats to burn.
Now, I don’t consider this a BAD thing. I like it. I like that I don’t really have to sweat what feats I have, and that if I pick a feat that only ever comes up once every three encounters, I know I’m not boned because that’s how well-built 4e. Its balance isn’t that flimsy. Even if you’re level 1 and you’ve only got one feat slot, choosing a bad one isn’t the end of the world. You can’t even bungle and choose something like “Skill Focus: Basket-Weaving” or “Profession: Pro Angster” like you could in past editions.
I don’t find anything about 4e’s feats to be bad myself, just that I would like you to gain more at the low levels, where there’s more choices, and less at the high levels, where there’s less choices. Through retraining, that feat “slot” can always be made more valuable where it needs to be.
But I’m the kind of guy that would like to have Weapon Focus and Two-Weapon Fighting and Two-Weapon Defense and an exotic weapon and skill training by 5th level because my character wants to be that cool, but I don’t want to start at paragon tier.
Makes sense. I agree with the basic thesis, but it’s just that feats, really, don’t excite me all that much. The people that seem to get the most out of them are non-human races, who get feats in plenty to improve and/or modify their racial powers, and I haven’t found a non-human race that I ever wanted to play. So feats remain nice, but they’re not as important to me as powers of the features from class, path, or destiny.
Some of the new stuff like Familiars and Domains is what brought this idea. As 4e goes on, we may all yet change how view feats. From what I can see, they are indeed becoming more important and exciting as they go on. Homebrewers (like myself) will also embrace new mechanisms for feats.
So while some futzy people like me right now are really impatient about feats, in the future, we may yet have more and more reasons to want more feats, and want them now!
turkleader: Could you please tell me the name of the feat that lets you deal Wisdom damage on a miss? I miss a lot.
Thanks
I remembered wrongly, or I found a different feat: I think it’s the Hammer Rhythm from Player’s handbook and it deals constitution damage, instead of wisdom that I remember. I’ll look more when my books are returned from players.